SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hello again for podcast number how much Marek five or six six six already I think six already time flies time flies today in English again because we are very kindly invited by Oliver Haag. Invited we invited ourselves to you. So we uh do a podcast. Uh we are here in Braunneberg in the Middle Mosel in Germany, and we do it in English because in Holland and Fland the Netherlands and Flanderen nobody speaks, not everybody speaks English German. So we do it in English, everybody speaks English. So that's why. And you speak very good English because Ali, tell us something about when were you born, school. Did you ever go to school? etc. etc.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah, first of all, uh welcome here to the wonderful Mosel part today with uh a wonderful blue sky, so under wonderful weather. So um for sure I went to school and uh I'm born as well, so almost uh turned to 50 already a few years ago, and uh I was going here to in well I'm my roots are here very deep at the Mosul. I went to school here, made my first practical time here for my business. Uh made alternative to the army as well. I went to the handicapped uh winery here, which is uh was a very very good experience. Not just uh in direction of wine as well as in direction of the humans, uh, which have been working there a lovely time. Then I worked at uh the Dunnoff State, which was a turn in my uh in my life uh before I was working in a government running.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Helmut Dnoff.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

At Helmut Dunnoff's place, yeah. That was uh beginning of the 90s, and it was an absolutely great time. Uh family-driven winery, uh, very smart, very fine guy. Uh actually I learned a lot, and actually uh he teached me the passion of the business in each direction, try off-try, fruity style, very uh similar to the Mosul, and that was a wonderful little bit too short time, and uh but absolutely great. And then I made um the practice to get uh to go to study, and I studied in Geisenheim, like most of the people, because Geisenheim is not just getting teached, it's uh actually starting relations, meeting people, peeping people from the wine business, and so an absolutely beautiful time. So Geisenheim is great. Uh, even there's Professor Chris Man, a wonderful guy, is Professor Schulz, a super guy who early started to teach the people how to get along with dry weather, with the change of the climate and all the things, and uh no absolutely changing climate.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

We will come back with that later, it's quite an issue, of course. And and then, but you also made some practice practical injured and I was in South Africa, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

I was in South Africa working for uh Bernhard Breyer and Bern Fitzgerald.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Oh, Bernhard Breuer.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, that was an absolutely uh great time. Bernhard Breyer, very well organized guy in uh in organization, everything. We mostly had the conversation at night, or in the evening, he uh uh I don't know if he was ever sleeping. He's uh very but a lovely guy who is a super experienced uh he was in South Africa, it was uh northern of Parles, so a very hot, warm area, uh Wellington, and it was a kind of a red wine project which uh Ben Philippi and Bernhard Breuer have been running for an advocat, Mordutois. Uh was in the beginning. I made the practical part. The practical part was with Ben Philippi, uh a crazy guy too. I loved him. Uh actually you started early in the morning tasting wines for lunch. You always had a beer, and uh you have been ending up with some wonderful wines, and at the end, some gin tonic. No, no, I loved him and uh we had a great friendship, and uh it's uh uh uh he passed away two years ago. That's uh it's a pity, but yes. In the False region. Right. And um and then afterwards I was going as well for a project of these two guys to Madeira for a short period. And um I was working in between at Katoiserhof uh for a short period and then I went into uh went to the Rheingau for at least almost five years.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

And um where did you do the which winery?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

At Vegla Estate, which have their main part in uh in the Rheingau. Uh and they have a De Pondance in the Mosel with Bank Husler Doctor as well. Uh and they have had a uh kind of a collaboration with today von Viding. It was former Dr. Reinhardt, which has been ending within my period, and um but this was a great experience too. Winery which is mainly focusing on dry wines, very well established on the German restaurant market, uh top restaurant market, and uh but then actually um there was a call from the Mosul and the the chance to go back, and it was always my dream. It's uh actually a lot of people have been asking why are you going back to the steep vineyards and to the to the lot of handwork. But if you're grown up here, if you're born in this region, if and if you know about the crowns, a very special climate, Riesling, which is a favorite uh variety here. I think uh if you've grown up, you have your roots here and uh you have the passion here. And though my way actually, after several travels, ended up here in the Fritz.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

And of course you could take it over from your father Wilhelm.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Right, right, right. So I'm round about the 13th generation. Well uh we established this 1605. 1605.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Oh, that's a long time. That's more as four.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

And it looks like that actually, as well as the 14th generation is staying in the they're going to start. My son uh just finished his school, and it might, he's going to start his practical time as well at Dunhoff this year, which is a great honor. And uh and he might move into the estate. Well, it's quite early, just turned to 18, he might enjoy his life and uh traveling a little bit through the world, but it would be fun for me uh and absolutely fantastic for my wife and me if he's going to move in the estate. But let's see. Yeah, hopefully we can move the passion which I picked up from several people. Hopefully, I can move this passion to the next generation.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Yeah, because Riesling is the thing. You're a Riesling lover, that also means you're a Pinot Noir lover, because Riesling and Pinot Noir are well, we talked about it with Annie Lawson yesterday. It's all cool climate wines, cool climate things, expression of the drums, yeah. Yeah, yes. Super, super, super.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Absolutely. But let's start with one wine.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Uh yes, oh yeah, so it's already 10 30 or something.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

So dieseling breakfast, yeah, yeah. Normally I would start with a cabinet, but let's start with the estate riesling trocken from the now wonderful measure, slightly measured 2023 vintage.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yes. Which is a beautiful vintage.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Absolutely. 23 is uh is almost perfect and with a wonderful fruit, very open uh and super enjoyable. And the estate wine with 11.5%, very refreshing, easy drinking from our different vineyard sites. I think we will talk about this later, but let's uh cheers.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Because you have a certain style of wine and we uh the Germans called call it filigrand filigran. Can you tell us something about what what style of wine are you looking for and how do you achieve that?

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Well, um I have not really a preference, I'm looking for I'm uh I like to uh actually I like to to bring in the bottle what the nature of what our region is offering. So we are um a little bit go backwards, we established in 1605. The Fritz Haag estate has been always running steep vineyards on Blue Devonian slate, um very strongly focusing on quality wines. What doesn't mean at the end we are just producing boutique or just high end, so we start with this very simple uh estate Riesling, but already this estate Riesling is coming from Blue Slate and traditional old vineyard sites, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 years old. And um these wines transport wonderful freshness, elegance, lightness, they're all handpicked, very careful. So even in the basic range, uh we want to transport something simple, easy drinking, where you have actually one glass which should be uh very quickly empty, and you get the animation to have the second one. And this is purity, finesse, and totally clear fruity-driven uh Riesling.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

We still call it mineral, yeah, but uh there's a m a lot of discussion about mineral in the Netherlands, uh also in Germany. Now it's called salty and cysty and citrus, etc. So this is a very, very I I like this a lot. It's very clear, it's very pure. You can have this as an apperative. Well easy accessible for everybody. The glass is empty before you know it.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

And this is the trocken one. I like the Liebly one, which is a little bit of residual sugar in it, and with that acidity, I like that a lot, you know. Beautiful, beautiful zesty wines. But then this is the basic one.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, this is the basics, that's right. So we start uh uh um with the basic ones, but you know, you might be true with minerality, but on the other hand, as well, it might be used up like terroir. But you think these are the main factors in the wine business. You might get tired of these words, but you can just produce a uh high-range wine or a top wine if you have top terror. And this is uh even for our region very, very important. Mosel is very old, more than 2,000 years of history. The Romans themselves start to cultivate wine here in this deep vineyard sites, and you might say the climate is changing the things. This is right, yes, but it is still the same on great terror on the top terrors, you're producing the top wines. Yeah, and this is uh still a very important message, um, which we should keep.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Well, that is the point. You know, you need a big terror, you need uh very good wines, of course, and you need the skill of the the winemakers, and you need the good climate conditions when it all comes together, you can make a top wine.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

That's right, and you need uh you need uh the the power to produce, yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

The philosophy in your head, how do you want to make it?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yeah, great wine starts in the head.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

This is partly transported by the former generation. Well, you might pick up things from your father for sure. This is uh but these are the main things, the focus. But by myself, I did not really change a lot. Why he was very successful. The things have been changing, are small things. Uh what is very important today is the adjustment and the balance of the yield per hectare, which is might may be lower than in former times because of the warm climate, you have to adjust, you take care. Uh, you might do more handwork in the vineyards to protect the grapes against illness, uh, which is part of a sustainability process as well. And you take care of the terror, you work very careful. Today we have a lot of machines doing a lot with technical instead of uh springs, whatever. And this keeps uh the vineyards in a good shape and good conditions, and this is very important as well to keep a philosophy or as well uh move your style uh into the product.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

But uh you're talking about wine yard work. Uh I happen I I know that wine yard the hours of wine yard work here in a Mosul is per hectare far much higher than for instance in the falls or something where the wine yards are not that steep. So you can mechanize there far more better than you can here. But here you need also to because work in a wine yard, it's not it's impossible to get, I heard. And it's expensive, of course.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

It is expensive. Handwork is expensive, yes, yes. It's hard to get and um and uh it's expensive, but you need to have the handwork even in the picking process within the season for sure, but as well in the picking process, that's very important. We do the picking in two, three times, so we are going for a pre-harvest, taking some leaves out, the other ones are going to stay a little bit longer, and the wines for the GGs are for sped on the house laser. And this is uh but this is the only way to produce high quality wines, uh, to produce the typically uh top wines which can stay for another 20, 30, 40 years.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, you say you pick three, four, three, two, two two, three, four times pickings. That means different green. The the first is the green one, so that it's left on the ground or something. The second one is that also for the for the the the cubia uh house wine, or how do we call it the basic wines?

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Parts are for the estate wines for sure, but parts as well we go in the pre-farvest are for a cabinet as well, which we're going to try later. Okay. Because a cabinet we look for full ripe grapes, which because we even have a low yield and the grapes are fully ripe, but then we go first time to the vignettes, pick out the ones which are have a little bit more of green shining, uh a little bit more of acidity, freshness, uh, and uh which are a little bit lower in potentially alcohol, and these ones are perfect for the first part of the cabinet. Cabinet we go into harvest within the whole harvest season, but this freshness you get at the beginning, the lightness, a little bit more spicy characters. This is very important, keeping a traditional taste of a cabinet.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

You also make a lot a little bit of sect, winserze?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

A little bit of sparkling wine, yeah, like the champagne champagne method, uh, which is sourced very carefully. The VDP has uh an own classification for for sparkling wines, and so we are very careful with whole cluster pressing and uh pressing with very low pressure. And uh but my idea was always if you're going to produce a sparkling wine, uh a little bit like the in the champagne direction, and Riesling is not easy. Riesling is a bit spicy and with bubbles it can be uh it can be a little bit um unbalanced, so I leave it at minimum five years on the yeast. And these moves uh a lot of creaminess into the sparkling wine, uh it's more settled, and I keep the dosage. If I'm going to do dosage, I'm not making print nature. Um lift it a little bit. I do with a spat laser from the same vintage, which which before I put beside, and these move moves a lot of uh finesse, elegance, purity, and freshness on the one hand, but with a bit of ripeness and settlement uh into the sparkling wine.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Five years on the lease. Yeah, do you hear that champagne growers? Not 15 months on the lease, no, five years on the lease. You see, yeah. Actually strange for the in the the lower qualified champagne are 15 months on the lease, yeah, like Moet and Chandon or something. Fifteen months. And here grower champagne, minimum 36 months. I know. That's foul de pay. 36 months at least.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

At least, yeah, if you go to prestige, yeah. I'm doing not a prestige, I do in uh kind of a Fritz Hag Bruttag. I just got it Fritz Hag Brut. Uh it's not coming from a single vignette. I want to have the choice to move where I get the best grapes for the sparkling wine. Uh, when we started in 16 and as well, we created one in 18, which is now on the market. Um, parts are from Ufer, but it's a smaller part. I have a part in Mülhammer Sonelei, which is a Primark Rusite, fantastic light slate. It moves a lot of finesse and purity into the products and uh and a little bit uh from other other from uh from our other primary site, Braunneberger Klostergarten, which these two sides are a little bit cooler as well. The Klostergarten has a light breeze from the huge forest area, and so the grapes stay for a long time very healthy and they have the crispiness, the freshness, and they are in perfect conditions for sparkling wine.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

And you have dosage in it, how much?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

A little bit. We move up to two, three grams of residual sweetness, not too high. I'm as well a big fan of Brutnature, but sometimes it can be a little bit, especially with Riesling, um, and we are doing no melolectic. Um if it comes, it comes, but normally no melolectic, and then it keeps it a bit smoother, a little harder. Yeah, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

But let's move to the next wine of okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

You know the Germans like to enjoy quickly as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Okay. I I I didn't okay, we will come back to that. Okay. Then what do we have? We go up what do we have here?

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Brauneberger Riesling Trocken 1G. Because I think uh I took this wine, it uh uh it is very interesting because we are now in the discussion about terroir on a discussion uh we're talking about terroir, and uh this is uh what is a little bit different. Um Brauneberger Riesling Trocken uh means uh at least it's a kind of a premier village. The grapes are coming mainly from the Kronkru site Brauneberger Ufer, a little bit from Brauneberger Ufer Sonenur, and because of as well change of climate, uh part is coming from Brauneberger Klostergarten, a wonderful little bit cooler Premercruisite, which has a very old amount of uh of whites and very low yields, and Ufa Dufa Somanur, more the warmer sites with warmer fruits, and uh the lightly combination with Klostergarten, which is a bit cooler. You can leave the crepes a little bit longer, more freshness, minerality, crispiness, and it's a super combination. So at least these are crepes which are even from Ufa Ufa Sonua potentially GGs, uh, where we say we are missing the eye dot for a GG because you want to keep the peak very tight, very strong, just the best. And these ones might be a little bit lighter, but they are perfect in these mid-range style with this freshness, purity, the animation, but still the lightness that you have as well. After one class, you can drink a second one, and uh but you feel a little bit more the depths of the terroir around prown effect.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

But uh how do you manage it? Because uh how do you make this wine? Because it comes in from the you say low yields. What is low yields?

SPEAKER_00 20:10

So we're talking about between 40 and 15 uh hectoliters per hectare. And uh with the state wines we are a little bit higher. And parts of this are our wines are even fermented spontaneous. Parts of this is fermented in big wood casks. It's what I have been moving a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Um not Mosel Foda?

SPEAKER_00 20:32

No, I haven't got so much Mosel Fuda anymore. I'm a big fan of uh of Doppelstück or at least 2000, a little bit more than 2000 liters, um, because I like more the relation of wood and wine, and uh they are a little bit better to handle, the wood is thicker, and um and a part of it is coming from uh these barrels. Though these are potentially GGs where I make a sign, I don't know it is a GG with a with a mark, and then we are going to taste in spring times two, three, four times. Um we do uh actually as I said spontaneous. We do no adding um okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yeah. And you only use your own yeast and no added yeast, nothing.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

We add no yeast and uh we keep it naturally and uh and uh try to ferment them. Um totally dry, which is not easy sometimes. Uh say uh but it is very rare. Normally we keep them out of a malolectic, even the Rieslings. Sometimes if you find ferment naturally, they might move. Uh but this is uh almost in the dry range, so nothing. Is going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Okay. Very good. Very nice. Very clear, also. Very what the Germans call geradlini.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

And still very young. They are now in a good point, starting to open it a bit more. This is what um is with our wines they need a little bit longer to develop. I would always recommend to drink the wines besides the estate wine, which you can drink quite early. These kind of wines after two, three, or even the GGs after five to ten years. Yeah. A lot of people asking when is the best time to drink it? You know, this is very individual. Depends a little bit on your own tastes. Some people like it fresher, some like it a little bit more aged. And I think that uh depends on the moment you're going to drink. If you're going to drink it on his own, without food or with food, if you're going to drink it with food, I think it can be always a little bit more measured, a little bit riper. And then it's a wonderful combination. And if you drink it on his own, the refreshing character, the purity, uh, with a nice group of people who are going to enjoy it, it is uh still uh beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah, absolutely. I know for I know from experience that the wine ripe, very, very nice. I told you what I also like. You have a bottle of uh the fine herb. It's the normal fine herb, or not the normal, this is the brown America Yufa fine herb. Right. That's I every year I put a case of six in my cellar and I drink it when it's between seven, eight, nine years old. So now I just finished a few weeks ago the last bottle of 2016. So now I'm going to open up the case of 17. And with that fine hair with a little bit of residual sugar in it, it's only 14 grams or something.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yes, a little bit less. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Less even 11, 12 milligrams. I like that a lot, and it's very nice to drink, it's easygoing, and you can drink the bottle by my my wife, or maybe Maes, my son. So everybody has two or three glasses, and then it's for cooking. When I'm in the kitchen working, I drink a glass of dead riesling.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Yeah, yeah, that's very important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

And what yeah, do you did you bring?

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Uh 2016, Ufa Final, which we're going to try later, which you just try later.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Oh, we do it later. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

We just have one uh try wine before with GG, which we're going to taste. Okay, okay, okay. But this you're absolutely right. Uh right, this is taste the wines with uh even if you start the cooking process, because even Riesling or the wines in general are very sensitive with the sauce, with the addings, with the toppings, and uh I think this is one of the most interesting parts in the cooking, trying the wine before, and uh and then later on with the food, I just use it as an imperative.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

But also uh just drink it in the sun with a nice weather like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Yeah, and I used to do it uh with your father Wilhelm, which I happen to know very, very good, and we had a good relationship, I think. So because I when we uh I started working, the Weinhandel Ader started working with your wines in 1995, it was the 1994 vintage, so that is already 30 years ago. And it wasn't your father, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was with your father.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

And 94 was a super vintage. So you started with a fantastic vintage.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

It had not a very good press in those days. But your father made very, very nice wines.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Absolutely, yes, yes. 94 was one of his favorite vintages, and uh, I think he got uh 94 as well for the 94 uh vintage, he got Wine Make of the Year, which was uh a great award for him, one of the first in a very uh uh important magazine here in Germany. And uh absolutely, and I think uh 30 years of uh uh of partnership.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

This is uh super, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was uh so stupid enough to import uh German wines in Europe or in the Netherlands, and in those days it was not very easy. Everybody bought wines from Langedoc and Roussillon and so and and Riesling was not really on in the portfolio of the people.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

No, no, no, no. And if you go back at have been talking a lot about these things uh uh with my to my father, it was very hard times in the beginning. Actually, uh he just moved into his state after the Second World War when uh most of the family has been in prison, and he had had to move in the state. He uh he left Lens Moser within his education time and then started. And uh his one of his first decisions was uh to rent the land for agriculture to somebody else and focus on wine because the wine business here was almost kind of a mix uh mix of agriculture cows and wine, but he said my heart is beating for wine, and then he moved here to Braunberg from the small village Burgen, where he was born and grown up, and uh built a new estate here with wonderful few we have today, and started buying more vignettes, and at this time it was not easy buying vignettes, uh it was very hard for him, and even he put each uh each uh euro into the estate, into new wignards, uh top vignettes, and has been starting part by part. And at this time the wine business was down because uh uh if you go back to the 1900s, there was uh uh German wines has been priced two, three times higher than the wines from Burgundy, Bordeaux. But most of the distributors for German wines uh all over the world have been Jewish people, and because of the history what happened in the uh in the within the Nazi time, uh actually they destroyed their own markets, and um so it was very hard, and there was a huge cris after the Second World War, and um it was very hard to for them to build up. But my father was and this is what I'm actually very happy about. He and what he teached us, both my brother and me, uh he always said you might focus on quality, and he did this all the time, taking the grapes from traditional vineyards, uh Riesling, he was just focusing on Riesling because within the 70s, 80s, a lot of people planted new varieties, thought this might be a great chance. Um but uh Riesling is what is growing here on these soil and these terroirs and this uh small regional climate. Absolutely fantastic. And I think this is a major variety. Well, there it might be in coming up in a few years, some Pinot Plan for sure. It's still a very little amount of uh top producers, and um there might be chance, but Riesling is something unique here. There's nobody else on the world who's be able to produce this style. We uh be able to produce here with this freshness, these lightness, uh, and even in the fruity style. If you go to, I just have been in Barolo, the people know exactly directly what you're talking about. The Riesling cabinets, badly these fruity style wines with low alcohol and a very intensive, fine taste with this great aging potential. And this uh was uh the way my father went through. His heart might have been beating a bit more for fruity wines, and uh this is what I have been trying to uh actually uh install a little bit more, some more try wines. A bit I don't want to say it's a focus, but I have been investing a little bit more in dry wines because I think it's a great chance with a change of the climate here for try wines.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, yeah. And it's also the market changes, of course, yeah. Because when when I started with your father in the 90s, there was a bigger demand for uh fruity style wines for special sp uh spade laser, auslaser, ausleiser gold cup, and beer on TBR, even that not that much, but our focus was most on spade laser and Auslaser gold capsule, because the Ausleiser gold capsule is very affordable. Bier and Auslaser is already expensive, and it has a reason, of course. And the Ausleiser gold capsule is often the quality of an BA, but it's not the price of a BA. And it it it it and I had them 50, 60. I has I buy 80s when I see them on auction. I just bought a few months ago 83 house is a gold capsule from your father on auction. It was not cheap. It was not expensive, also but 83. Yesterday we went Zeltingerhof.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

We had an uh as a as a starter, uh 2007, it was a spade laser. Oh yeah, it's also good to have 2007 as an apparent fresh and light and uh low alcohol, eight percent, eight eight point five or something. Yeah, and then it was a little bit more, was it ten? And with with the five of us, so of the four of us. Everybody has one and a half glass, and then you can go to dinner.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Super.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

And this is what you thought with in the old days in the 90s, but then it changed. More people getting in Germany, it started in the trockener welle, and then it gets to more trocken wines nowadays, and you have one help, and that is actually the global warming. And this in the 80s, when we had dry wines here, cabinet trocken, uh speling is a trocken. In the eighties, it was too much, the acidity was too hard. I call it always square. I I got problems with my my stomach drinking that. But nowadays, because of global warming, I think nowadays you make beautiful dry wines here.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Thank you very much. Yeah, we might be one of the region who is uh actually uh picking up the positive things from uh the change of the climates. But okay, we might uh push a button to stop it as well because dry weather, it's getting drier, it's getting more extreme, you have to be anxious. Uh last year we got frost and end of April, and the wines has been already uh a little bit too big, so we are strongly affected, and these things are getting more and more, which makes uh wine life not easier. But uh right now we are just in between you have been talking upward uh you for Sonanur, Riesling Trock and GG. And this is his wonderful example you just described. Absolutely right. I think it is on the one hand a change of the climate, but on the other hand, with a lot of respect uh before uh without respect uh with the old gener uh with the former generation, I don't want to say the old former generation, I think that you get a wonderful education. And my father always said uh you can be very happy today. You can travel through the world, you can pick up a lot of things, and uh you go to Geisenheim, you get a super education. And uh I think even with this, and we as well uh we have the WDP, which is kind of a small family, uh have a very good relationship to some top producers, and we are very open going to taste our wines and uh to at least bring the best onto the bottle. And this is uh what we have right now you for Sonur, the hard piece of our production around the rocks with a very, very high amount of blue slate, very old wines, but a soil which is very, very rocky, uh almost poor, so the roots have to go deep to pick up the food to survive. And these move a lot of intensity and finesse into the wines, and um but still freshness, still pureness. They are not overpowered by alcohol. They still have these this intensity, and I think this is uh what's making the tri wines from the Mosel as well super attractive with a great aging potential, and different to your right uh what has been 30 years, 20, 30, 40 years before. Uh today I think we just I don't want to say we got better, but we are a little bit more professional in this in the style of try wines.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

And in the old days you used the best grapes for the fruity wines. The best grapes were used for Auslayers and Auslayers of gold caps and so on. And nowadays, the best grapes get for the Grossig of Exe. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yes, on the one hand, yeah. But you as well are going to ask me later on. The winery now we are running uh thirty almost thirty hectares. Uh our play fields are a little bit bigger. So you can gamble a little bit more. And um as well, sometimes if you have a vinyard side where you say, why it's not anymore perfect for a dry dry wine, because there might be some portrite scrapes or they're almost overripe, then you're going to take them for a nice house laser. Yeah. Uh though we are very flexible. And um but this is true. Um today dry wines got more important in comparison uh get more and more important, and though we have a wonderful balance of uh sweet and dry and uh taking it from uh from other vineyards than we did it in former times. But you're right too.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

But uh the for the sweeter wines, cabinet spadle is uh is going more to the far east, I heard.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Um well, if you see that's why I'm producing from Euphersonworm maybe once one fooder per year. It at least got I don't want to say too good, but uh a little bit as well too warm, and I don't want to gamble. I take euphur, I prefer euphair to keep as my cabinet wine. Why it's very simple. If you see the mountain in front of you, euphur is going from the bottom till the top, and even in the top, uh there might be some cooler parts, uh, there is a little bit lower temperature, there's a little bit more influence by the fresh air, by the winds, and this keeps the wines as well uh a little bit lighter. This is what's getting challenging. What I said we might have positive things for dry wines, but you might take care to keep a cabinet in cabinet style, these light freshing type, which is absolutely unigo in the world, you know. But this is sometimes sometimes more difficult to produce instead of a spat laser. And these are the challenging things. But uh we I think as well, we educated ourselves. We had wonderful vintages which teach us that you might harvest a little bit earlier, you'd be a little bit more careful. We know about the weather, everything moved a little bit to an earlier period. When I started in the business, we always started beginning mid of October. Today we are starting in the second half of September. Uh the exception is 2021, the cool vintage. And um I think you have to adjust yourself. There is no receptor anymore how to do wine or how to produce wine. You have to be very individual, very flexible, and these as well uh as well is making some pressure as well on the employee part because you have to be very strong in a shorter time to pick the grapes in the perfect condition. So uh overall, even the winery in the production part, and uh with your employees in the harvest time, and we do everything by hand, as I mentioned, you have to be very strong and absolutely top on the point to bring in the grapes in the best uh in the best time.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

And that comes down from the yeah, like your brother and you learn from your dad, that quality is very important, and you uh yeah, translated through the wine still until these days.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

That's right, yes, yes. But this is something he actually in the last two years as well sometimes uh was asking himself how is it going to move? Is it going to be earlier and earlier and earlier? Because when he started the business 56 years ago, he started end of October, beginning of November. Sometimes I have been fighting with a frost in the harvest, they have had snow on the grapes. He told me one year, I don't know which year. And this has been changing totally. Today we are fighting with warm temperatures in the harvest time. We have our labors sometimes working in the bikini, you know, with the under I don't want to say with the underwear, but uh with a with a light shirt, and this is totally uh totally different. And this is on the one hand it helps us, but on the other hand, it improves new um problems. Um we are not uh actually have been educated so well to work with these warm temperatures, so everything has to be a bit quicker. So you have to be more flexible nowadays, right? Right, right. Absolutely, absolutely, and more a little bit stronger uh to be on the point to to do uh the work on that.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

But uh you do everything by hand when you see the when you see the wine yards, you know why. Wow, yeah. But is it isn't it very difficult to get workers in the wine yard, for instance, because uh sometimes you need fifty, sixty pickers or something, yeah, with the with uh with uh uh when it's ripe.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah. Uh is that uh it's getting more and more a problem?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

It is not uh yeah, yeah, it is not getting easier, but uh but it's okay. Our employees are fully socially hired. And uh know as well if they're working here for a longer period, they get a retirement fee later on. Actually, we have flexible working hours. We are very individual, and uh all my employees are working, or most not all most of my employees are working at our estate since 20-30 years. So they know me, I know them, and uh I trust them, and uh they know I need them, they know I know they need me, and so it is I think it's a wonderful relationship. Um, they are mainly coming from Poland since uh uh 30 years. There is a group of Romanian people which is working as well for me. And uh but this is very important always to have the same uh the same people because they know what I like, they know my style, they know my idea, and uh they actually doing it automatically. And this is very, very important. But it's not getting easier. This is uh this is for sure, yes.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

How many works do you have the whole year?

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Uh we are around about between 15 and 18, depends a little bit on the season, or let's say between twelve and eighteen in the springtime a little bit less. In the summertime we need some more people, and then in harvest time we have a little bit above forty people, around about forty-five pickers. And um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

But you increase your domain, eh? We have been increasing, yes. Your father was uh had around fifteen hectares. Actually you doubled it.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Um a little bit less even. Uh when I have been taken over, it was around about ten hectares, a little bit less than ten hectares. And uh now it's a good question why we increased. Uh to be honest, we have been too small to be big, but too big to be small, and anywhere in between, and there was a request from the markets. So we are mainly focusing on export markets, and um so we got the chance to buy some vignettes which are close by and as well in Ufany Ufasonanur. For us, Eufa Nufasonanures are the most fantastic vignette sites uh along the Mosul. This is an absolutely unique terror, and this is where the heart, my father's heart, has been beating for, and my heart as well. Uh it's great. And um so if you get a chance, you might look that you get a another piece. And beside you for Sonenur, I got the chance to buy very good, and maybe one of the some of the best pieces in Kestner Paulinshof Berg.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Which is not a great it's not a Grand Cru from you, Gross Kevs.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

It's a Grand Cruise side. It has been always as well under Napoleon in the highest level of uh in the classification. It's super wine. Uh it's another, it's a little bit a different kind of soil. Um what means you for and you fasonan was very rocky. Uh a lot of slates, uh it's almost just stones. And in Paulinsovberg, you have more weathered slates, it's a little bit finer, a little bit deeper, the crown, it these moves a little bit more of creaminess. Sometimes my interpretation is some red fruits into the wines. And um and on top of Kessner Paulinsovberg, which is an underlevel of these mountains, is uh Monsler Ketchen. This has been not named in a classification. The name is Great Ketchen, you know. Uh this is what the people mostly like. But uh, this is a huge uh vineyard site which has been expanded uh with the wine law 1971, unbelievable. But we are running the hard part, the steep part of this mountain, which is with exceptional old vineyards, and uh with a huge one of the highest vineyards wall in Europe on top of, but very steep, but super old wines. And there we have maybe the lightest gg's, but with a very nice intended intensity, with a lot of herbs, some eteric taste, and uh it's 0.8 hectares, so not a huge field. Um, it's a little bit fun for me. And uh this is what I do uh besides the main GGs of Pauline Zelback, Ufa Ufa Sonanur. And you have iceberg on there? A little bit of Pinot Blanc, yeah, yeah. My father was not happy. He said, Why are you planning why Pinot Blanc? Well, I said I won uh 15 years ago. I was one of my first things. Uh I bought a vignette as well in Ufa Sononur. But we have had to drink a lot of bottles to get this vignette, and uh beside I bought a bushed vignette part on the side of Parnelberger Klostergarten. Yeah, and this is very close to a water protected area, a little bit high in attitude, but a super nice uh terror. It's mainly uh slate, but a little bit of gravel, a little bit of chalky soil. And I wanted to do something else. Um our winery have had no history for Pinot Noir for red varieties, so I said I think the only thing which should be run for me is uh Pinot Plan. So I planted almost one hectare of. Pinot Plan with some French clones, some Alsacian clothes, and some from the southern part of Germany. With loose bunches, low yields, all these things. And I do mainly the things I don't do with Riesling. I do a little bit more skin contact. I do some batonage as well. And I ferment in uh the tonneaux, French tonneaux. One third is in Mosel Food, and one third is in stainless steel. So I play a little bit for an estate wine. But you know, I thought it is something for the people who are maybe for the who don't like the crispy Riesling, they go for a not mainstream Pinot Blanc because it's quite dry and very intensive in taste. And uh it's a little bit fun for me, more in the business. So mainly a focus on the Riesling.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Your father was not in for the fun.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

No, for him some things has been not so easy. You know, we changed uh leaving the the predicates from dry wines, it was very hard. You know, my father has been grown up in a time of scandals in Germany, even wine scandals and uh predicate has been uh very important to s that these wines are not chapterized and so on. But I think this has been changing, and this is the only something which I uh which I'm a little bit different in my opinion. I think you're not going uh to make uh with leaving these words, you make it easier for the world. You know, you want to you want to bring the wines to the export, but the people couldn't understand Cabinet Rock and Feinhab and Cabinet Fruity style. With the predicates, mainly the people are uh have in their mind fruity-style wines, and though it was quite easy for me to leave these words, but my father, you know, he said he was building up his uh amount of clients with his you know focusing on purity finesse with his predicates without shapitalization. But I think it doesn't mean we are shaped the wines uh and uh because today the world is totally different. Uh GG means it's a top-try wine from a wigned side, and uh with shapalization, you're not going to make it better, whatever. It is pure, it's from the nation, uh from the nature, and it is the best uh drop we put in the bottle. And today, what is the difference? Uh the consumer know exactly uh what is the good stuff, what is top stuff, and then it doesn't matter a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Yeah, because they made that like in in Burgundy with the the the pyramid thing, and that was for lots and lots of consumers very easy to understand because they are used to it. You enter your entry level, your village level, premier cru, grand cru. Very simple. Absolutely. But in the old days, I know we had carta wines, we had there were lots of all those names, people got crazy, nobody understood anymore what was what.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

And that was my idea a little bit, and uh, and just in the last two or three years, uh my father said, Now I understand your idea, and you're absolutely right. Reducing the portfolio, focusing on the main things, and uh even the GGs, he said they are fantastic, they are outstanding, and um the people don't care about uh they care about how it's produced, sustainability today today. I think is a must thing for an essay like ours, uh, taking care of the nature and all the things, top quality even, and then I think the people are going to trust that that we're going to do this on a um absolute beautiful way.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

You're working now for but are you putting biological on the labels maybe in the future?

SPEAKER_00 47:37

We are not working biologic. We are working sustainable, because I think, in my opinion, this is for us a better process. Uh working in the steep vineyards is always not so easy. We still working with drones and uh and spraying apart with a helicopter, and um so we are very close to the biologic direction, but I'm not going to move uh soon. And um so for me uh for us the sustainability direction is much more effective and interesting, and I think uh a wonderful choice for us.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Yeah, okay, very good. Very good. Then um talking about uh we just start with uh your markets. Uh how many do you you do quite a lot of domestic market in Germany himself, but also export market.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

We are mainly working in the export markets, it's making sixty to seventy percent of our uh our sales, yes. Um for Mosul um export was always very important. And my father already started to uh increase the different markets. He left as well to travel to the markets to enjoy what I do as well. To enjoy if you go to Asia, and Asia is not uh it's a very individual uh uh style of countries, you know, a lot of herbs, intensity, freshness, and these with our off-try wines or with our fruity style, warm climates with a cabinet or an off-try on a cabinet with 8%. This is just uh super, and this wine nicely chilled, is so refreshing. Uh, if I go somewhere in the world, I always started tasting uh a cabinet should be the wine instead of Aperol Spritz at the beginning because you have low alcohol, you have a nature product, and this is so amazing, refreshing your body, making you hungry, and keep you in good shape. And uh, this is uh what's making uh for us the market quite interesting. But for sure, the German market as well is very important. We work with retailers, Swiss restaurants, the German restaurant market is fantastic. We have a nice amount of top restaurants, of star restaurants here, even around uh our door. We have uh uh two two three uh two three-star restaurants very close by, and it's fantastic. They work a lot with uh Mosel wines, and these are uh fantastic uh places to go through.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Yeah, very good. The US market is interesting now. You know our friend The Donald makes it not easier for us, I think, or for you, as I say. Uh, how do you think about that? I know it's very fresh, it's very difficult to say, but when okay, when he when he puts 25% on it, what do you think then?

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Uh, first of all, now I'll put a cabinet, and always if I'm going to think about this problem, so I first start drinking a cabinet to relax myself. Uh well it's not it's it's not our decision, it's a decision which is done by the US. We might uh we might try to handle it for sure. It's not helpful, but I don't want to start a political decision uh discussion. You know, um I might have another few like him, but we might handle it. It's not easy. Uh we are right now just at 20%, now we reduced to 10% for a short period of 90 days. Yeah hopefully that uh uh you and other countries are going to solve the problems, and um I think he's open and uh say might get some agreements uh to handle the things. I think it's uh at least uh it's a problem for us as well. It's making the wines, but as well a problem for the US people because it's making the wines more expensive in US. And this is not uh helpful. And um and uh we have had a uh a nice request for our wines, and uh we have people who like uh Germany, German wines. I think it's a super combination with a very fresh, very fine, elegant food in US uh with a lot of herbs, uh fru vegetables and so on. But okay, let's see how the market is to develop and we just shot down. I try to do my best.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

Was the US market? Is it a big market for you?

SPEAKER_00 51:57

It's uh well, it's a very important, one of our oldest markets. Uh it's not the biggest market. We are spread it quite uh quite a lot, very individual, but for sure these uh this type of cripes is forcing the problems worldwide.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

So uh it's too fresh to say something about it, you know. You never know, and the Donald's gonna be a little bit more than a little bit. It can change this afternoon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Nobody knows. So we will see. We will see. Okay, we have a cabinet here.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Yes, that's what I said. So this is a perfect wine to relax, uh to refresh. Cabinet, it's uh I always uh try to pour a cabinet, even if people are asking or not, and because this is something unique. This is a business card for uh for Germany, for the northern part of Germany, but especially for Mosel. This fresh pure style with so super integrated sweetness, uh freshness. You might say now, yes, in between what you mentioned a few sentences before, uh it has been they have been getting a little bit more opulent, a little bit more powerful because of the ripeness. Though it's as well not easy to keep this style of uh of this balance with some spiciness, some freshness, uh a well-integrated sweetness. But this is because of the little bit of earlier harvests, a little bit of higher uh yields we need to keep it a little bit more balanced. Um, but uh these are wines, you know, I think for a super uh value, and um you can keep this for another 20, 30, 40 years. And uh tell me many wines in this category which you can keep for such a long time for these wonderful uh fair prices and with this super taste.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

But this is very uh this is very for me very cabinet-like, because in the old days, in the 80s and so, cabinets had around 25 gram residual sugars, and nowadays it's far more. But that that is forty-five, I think. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

That's right, yes, yes, yes. Everything got a guess okay. That's it's a cassier, right? Yeah, yeah. 30 years of experience. Yeah, 30 years of experience. Yeah, yeah, but that's true, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, no, no, Cabinets, this is yeah, you might be true, we are a little bit higher, but everything got a little bit uh uh a little bit more depth, power, intensity, because as well of the change, the lower yields uh the climate again. But on the other hand, this is uh this is uh magic things as well in the vineyards uh to have uh it's not a receptor, it is you know the passion, it is a stomach feeling to know now it's a perfect time, let's pick some cabinet, or sometimes you pick a little bit earlier, you have the freshness, the lightness I said, yeah, because at the end you get enough powers.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

But sometimes you get confused because uh talking about seldom hof, we were had a bottle of Erne Prelat. Uh which year was Erne Prelat, you know? Uh yesterday? No, before yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 55:03

71.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Was it no no no that was not an Airno Prelat of 71. It was it 89 77, yeah. Seventy seven, yeah. 97, oh 97, but it was a spade laser. Well, I guarantee you that was an house laser. That one, yeah. It was an more than an house laser, it had bothrytis and everything. That was that was not that was not a spade laser, and that is what I I it was a beautiful wine, but that's not what I'm searching for.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

It was a development in between, yes. Some wines have been too powerful, maybe they got more some better ratings for these more sweeter wines or let's say downgraded wines. But I think this has been changing. I think even if you see thou the young generation, they know that we have a wonderful chance with cabinet of fine spadlazers to be present on the markets. People are looking for lower alcohols with a bit of sweetness, and in combination with food, they are these are exceptional, wonderful wines. And we're talking about Germany, which is a very small percentage of the worldwide production, Mosel is a very small percentage, and uh, these kind of wines are super rare. And uh uh I think uh that's the reason why I'm absolutely positive for the future and for the next generation. We might have a little bit now uh hang down and uh well it's not so but let's see. But if you see the future, uh people are drinking less. Uh I think we are talking about wine. Uh, wine uh includes alcohol for sure.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

But we are talking about a product here which has a culture of more than 2,000 years. We talk about a product in combination with food and wine class wise. I think uh this is a very, very uh interesting part, uh part of life. And um though I think the people will still enjoy super good wines, well-made wines, and cabinet is not so expensive, it is a wonderful value. Uh that's the reason why I think uh worldwide we have a super potential.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

But we also see a little bit of revival of the cabinet now. Last few years, did you notice that?

SPEAKER_00 57:22

We you guess that's what I said. Yeah, yeah. That is since almost 10-15 years, the young generation picked up let's keep it fresh, let's keep it light. Maybe not as 30, 40, 50 years ago because the the production has been different and the and the temperature sense spa, they realized let's keep it refreshing. And those some hypey wine bars all over the world are pouring these kind of cabinet style with good food beside, or with the traditional food, or with some snacks, and they know how to interpret these uh categories. And that's why we have a small renaissance for cabinet.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

And also with the young people, you see a difference like in the Netherlands. Um they don't know it, then they taste it one time, and then okay, they buy it for them home because they know okay, less alcohol, that's good. It's fresh, I can use it with a lot of food and drink it in the sun, and yeah, it's nice to have.

SPEAKER_02 58:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

For sure. Yeah. Okay, good. Then we have the little bottle and a little one.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

And at the end, and we do the a little bit measured wine. Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

Which we forgot now because we've been talking so much. And we move uh actually I choose an house laser. Yeah. Auslaser is something very special. Um, this is uh our regular house laser. What means regular house laser? We have two styles of house laser, uh regular one without potritis, a fully higher ripeness level without potritis.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Auslaser without potrytis.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

That is this one. That is this one. And then we have one with potrytis, which is wearing a gold capsule, which is nothing which is uh fixed by law. It's a known kind of classification, um which is uh showing that it's something very special from the winery. Till the old wine law 1971, we have had Ausleser, fine, finest, high finest Ausleser. Instead of keeping maybe one of these three uh normal Auslaser finest and then go to Bernhausles. Right, Feinstein Ausleser. They uh made the decision to skip all those words and let's go from Ausleser to Bernhausles, which was a pity. And wines with a bit of potrytis, which are on top of the regular Ausleser, but not already in the Bernhausles to the End S, my father and many other top estates. They made the decision to use a gold cap, which is, as I said, nothing by law, it's their own kind of classification.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

But a lot of producers uh follow that system, eh? But I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Someone is a little bit scared.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

But then you have also a producer who has spate laser gold capsule. And that makes it a little bit confusing, then. I talked to this guy, I told him not to do, but he didn't hear it. He didn't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

And there are more houses that doing that that way, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

Yeah.

unknown 1:00:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

But they uh they try to, I think, uh improve up of the case. I don't I don't know why they do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

Okay. So we have a house laser here from uh we have a house laser here from house laser.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

23 from our Ufassonan Who vignette. And uh very pure, very fine. 23. We have had a super ripeness. 23 was as well. The wintages are if you go back. Let's talk a little bit like about the last four or five wintages. Let's start with 19, which was for me almost a perfect vintage, freshness, crispiness, ripeness 2019. 19, yes. Very good. They I just tasted the 2019. They're already a little bit riper, but they are now in a wonderful drinking window. They're already very enjoyable. And then we have had 20, which was a start a little bit into the drier season, but we still had enough rain, but very pure, very fine super wines. 21 was first vintage after 10-15 years, which was kind of these cool vintages like 2004, 2008. I think the wines still need time to develop crispiness, freshness, a little bit of a vegetative kind of taste, a little bit of green notes. But super interesting for people who like this, a little bit more fresher style, crispiness. And then we move to the first uh very, very dry vintage, 2022. We have had to do a lot of work outside in the vineyards. We reduced the amount of grapes uh to keep it in a good shape and um uh within these very dry seasons. I realized to be still positive uh the nature is handling some uh himself still very, very good. Uh we saw some yellow leaves, but not as much. As I mentioned, the wines did not really collapse, uh so they still have been in a good condition. What means a healthy soil, a good balance with organic material in the soil is very important. And the roots, this is very as well. Old wines have very deep roots, spreaded roots, and these uh keeps still the wines in a good shape and they are be able to survive very well. Then we moved into 2023, which was in the beginning very similar to 22, but then in um August we get some wonderful rainfalls, and these move a lot of extracts to the wines, intensity, and uh after 22 with this little bit more of dark aromas, a little bit of a smoky aromas. 23 was very fruity driven with a very interesting, very ripe, open fruit, super vintage again. I think as well with a great aging potential. And then now what's in the barrel 24 is not a bottle yet. Uh we can expect a very fine vintage, 0.5% less uh in average with the wines, GG's, which are around about 12% of alcohol. But I just tasted the GGs and this tastes so pure, so elegant, and not even missing anything. And this is what's making our wine business as well so interesting, you know. It's a small video. You talk about and it's 24 because we had some frost in springtime, which was for us still okay. It was like a cream cut in the vignettes, a reduction all over the vineyards. There has been some other regions affected even stronger. It's a very, very difficult vintage in in besides in quantity in our region. But uh very pure fine. And this is, you know, you see, we're talking about five vintages, so different. This is nature, the interpretation of nature, interpretation of the style of a winemaker. And this is for me always what keeping the wine business so interesting. We are not talking now about the industry product, we talk about individuality. You talk about every year a new challenge. Uh and this is uh actually, Alan, I like each challenge. Sometimes you don't you might not have, uh you don't might not like a challenge, but if it is like this, and you uh actually uh you can show what you'll be able uh to to do and create vinyard sides, and that's what I always say. Uh it might get warmer, uh it might get less different because a cooler side and uh and a warm side like Euphur, but Eupher always has uh the qualities always uh on the top.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

Yeah, because super wine art just behind us.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

We look at it, yeah. Okay, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

Shall we do the 2016? And because we have to close down, it's you know one hour five almost. We can do the 2016.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

Fine hab, yeah. Oh, okay. We are already online. Yeah, okay. Sorry. We have the Braunberger Jufer.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

Now we have the 2016 Braunberger Jufer off-dry, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

Yeah, that's just the off-dry, so the fine hab. So this is the nice, the wines I very much like. I always put away a case of six every year, and then I laid down in my cellar, and I just finished the last bottle of 2016 a few weeks ago, and now starting up the 2017, because this is delicious to drink, it's low in alcohol, etc. etc. I already mentioned. But what I what I also did, and now it comes when I started working with your father in the 90s, I every year put away also in my cellar gold capsules, a few bottles of BA, TVA. I bought wines from you on the Versteigerum for Tiger. Four or five vintages with Verstiverungswijner. And this, my my son, Miss, loves all these kind of stuff. And then, especially the old ones. I have two children. He's from 99. So I have lots of 99s. And my daughter is from 2001. And I'm 100% sure when everything ever is going to manage, when they're going to marry, or maybe they uh they graduate, they finish their study, I hope, ever. And that's a nice, nice uh things to drink from their birth year, these wines, because they are very old of the can and they can get even 20-30 years older. So that is what I like about nowadays with 2001 or 99 or even older. And when I sometimes I find old bottles on auctions, so last few months ago I bought 83, Auslist Gold Cup, broader bagger for Zolano, a gold cup.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:59

83 Yeah, the potential in these wines is great. You can keep them forever almost.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

I think you also have all very much old wines in your cellar.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

I don't have so much anymore, so um, but for sure from time to time we try something uh uh a little bit aged. And uh I just opened for the eight uh now for the crediation of my son at the 18th birthday 2006. Okay. Uh I didn't put a lot of gabinet and dry wines in the corner. It was a pity, but my father bottled a lot of big bottles, so he can marry several times to drink all these wines. But you're absolutely true. You always will find a moment to enjoy these wines, and they're still tasting super, super fine. Right now we have here 2016 Ufer Off-Try, and I fully agree with a little bit of ripeness, uh, the wines are eating up the sweetness. These wines are produced between 12 and 14 grams of residual sugar. So with a wonderful level. But you'll find it better than it's a few more. But never be shy about this sweetness, this lightly sweetness, it's so well integrated. And if you just um if you just realize this in combination with a lot of vegetables you have in the Netherlands, with a lot of fresh fish, a little bit uh fried fish with some lightly uh uh uh sauce on top, with with some asparagus beside whatever, some potatoes, this is super uh fine. And if the wines are a little bit aged, they are matching much better uh as well uh with the food, and um and this is still in a very, very good shape after nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

Also, a very strong point from Briesling is you can dry you you can drink it young, very young if you want to. And aged. And you can drink it aged, you can do everything with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

And this has been changing. Actually, in the last 40-50 years, this is an advantage a bit of the change of the climate. You're absolutely ripe. You you don't have to tell everybody uh keep it in the uh keep it for five, ten, fifteen years. What what are you going to drink in between? Um you can drink it as well as a young stadium. They have a wonderful fresh fruit and uh some uh a lot of these minerality, freshness, purity, these slatey characters, sometimes smoky character. And I like it a lot to drink these wines young and then to drink it after three, four years again, and then you see how wine's going to develop, and then you teach yourself, you educate yourself and might might find the point when you personally like it the most, and you educate yourself as well for which kind of food you're going to pair the wines with. And I think this is uh absolutely lovely, fantastic process.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

Okay, now okay, yeah, we are closing up. Thank you very much, Oliver, for uh you all your uh your comments and your remarks and everything. It was very, very helpful. It was very we learned a lot again. Yeah, even me. I I come here since uh 1990 already, so it's 35 years, and every time I learn, yeah, and that's what's about it. And a beautiful location, and uh gorgeous, not a beautiful location, gorgeous location, gorgeous. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:11

Thank you, thank you very much for 30 years of relationship, and uh please don't do one thing, drink going on, drink Riesling, and then you will stay in this good shape as you look in today. Thank you very much and cheers. Thank you.